Thursday, November 04, 2010

Profondità - "Profondità" {Italy} [197X] Prog/Psych

oi meu amigos! hope you are all well and enjoying whatever you are doing. for me this album is italians' best kept secret for 70s psychedelic rock. i was searching this album for such a long time, and i feel glad to find it. unfortunately i couldnt find enough information for this album, the only review i found is, at ItalianProg site, says;
"Doppio album del astierista / compositore Paolo Ferrara uscito per una piccola etichetta, Profondità è quasi completamente strumentale e contiene musica originale in stile colonna sonora, con qualche somiglianza con i Pink Floyd. I 19 brani dell'album sono quasi totalmente basati sulle tastiere con l'ausilio sporadico di altri strumenti e parti cantate corali. Paolo Ferrara compare come autore ed esecutore di diversi altri dischi." while copy/paste was my friend, google translate might be yours. A hidden treasure for the lovers of early pink floyd..


AlChiMiA...
EmbRioNe...

thanks to tristan stefan :)

Enjoy!

45 comments:

nahavanda said...

http://lix.in/-8c5d2b

RickK said...

thank you for this interesting album.

Anonymous said...

Hi
It' s clearly the beginning of " shine on your crazy diamonds" ! Pink Floyd wasn' t clearly creative in 1975 !
Thanks !

Sosgotcha

dedalos said...

We all know that the album has many similarities with early Floyd's albums. But how come 1 or maybe 2 tracks similar to 1973 lp "Dark Side Of The Moon", since this one produced in 1972???

Anyway here's some review:
Paolo Ferrara - Profondita (Horse Shoe HSIR 3217/8) - 1972.
A double LP by keyboardist/composer Paolo Ferrara, issued by an unknown small label, Profondita is almost totally instrumental and contains original library music, with some similarities with Pink Floyd. The 19 tracks on the LP are mostly based on keyboards, with the use of other instruments here and there, and choral wordless parts.
The name of Paolo Ferrara appears as composer and player on many other records.

Jason said...

I too am slightly confused. The second track above is clearly more than a little similar to Shine On, yet was released a year earlier? According to Wiki, Shine On was first performed live in 1973, yet this album was released in 1972? I would never in a million years accuse Roger Waters of plagiarism, there must be another answer. The dates are wrong maybe? Interesting nonetheless.

Paco Lothario said...

Who heard what first is a great game to play with ANY similar music which came out around the same time. I mean how much credit does John McLaughlin ever get for inspiring major works by Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, there are some other big ones as well.

And then to see who actually gets most recognized for the stuff which ends up the most popular. It actually rarely ever goes to who deserves the credit the most.

Anonymous said...

Very good album, thanks, Nahavanda!

Armute

nahavanda said...

@Armute, it is nice to see you my old friend! lost connection with you ages ago..hope you are doing well. nahavanda@prognotfrog.com is my mail. tell me how goes on :)

Michael said...

The first one sounds a lot like "Time"
When did Floyd first perform that?
If the date is correct, this predates Dark Side of the Moon too.

mar-abunta said...

Thanks man, great stuff! ;)

Allez said...

hello Naha! it's been a while, hasn't it? Thanks for this one, comments sound promising, i'll let you know after listening, Banzaiii!

Dereg said...

Hello, record is not from 1971\72 but certainly from 1975\76 as Horse shoe label was not even existing in 1971. Profondità is HS_3218, I've HS_3220 and it clearly sounds mid to late seventies.

Anonymous said...

Voyons donc, une musique un peu similaire. Il ne faut pas avoir l'oreille musicale pour dire une chose pareille. Le plagiat d'un coté ou de l'autre aurait fait un tapage du tonnerre. Donc, je crois que cet album a été acheté par Pink et voila tout. Si le contraire est possible et bien qu'attend-t'il notre merveilleux compositeur Paolo pour faire sa fortune ???

EK said...

I actually came back here to investigate after hearing similar connections to PF (For me, specifically Track 3, "Alchimia", is a dead ringer for "Breathe" from DSOTM (particularly the change at 2.48), so I'm kinda hoping this is from later in the 70s as Dereg thinks, otherwise PF have some explaining to do - maybe they picked up a copy when they were doing "Live In Pompeii"? ;-)

proggy said...

You guys are brilliant !!

the said...

this is a total scam. I have video of Pink Floyd developing both "songs" listed here. Dark Side of the Moon was written in 72, released in 73

someone is using there Pro Tolls to fuck with people

nahavanda said...

@Allez Banzaii friend! long time really, nice to see you again :)

nahavanda said...

something we are sure about:
- This album was made in 70s, in other words it is NOT a fake album.
- There is NO date on LP and LP cover.

kenrub said...

Thanks!

Interesting...

Anonymous said...

If there is no date on the label or sleeve why say 1972? It can't be 1972. 1. It copies Floyd tunes from 68 thru 75, so more likely 76. 2. Drum machines weren't that good in 72. Its either a deliberate contemporary attempt to fool or a talented but not very original musician who thinks he/she has the right to butcher copyrighted material. That said its a very entertaining listen and best of all it left me in stitches at times. The attempt at the Echoes ping is sheer musical slapstick.

nahavanda said...

@Anonymous i dont listen music just because it is original, it is enough for me that i hear something good.

i wouldnt blame floyd if this album was released at 72 for stealing. and i wouldnt label this album as fake if it was released after mid 70s.

we are all in relationship with outer world. you take the part that you enjoy from outside -greater common- and you give it to greater common. it is not the issue of adidas vs adibas here.

i know i should be careful, because next day the folks review and take the dates infos from here to xarchives ynosis etc.. ;)

then why say 1972?
because it is the best guess until someone come up with a better guess or proof of evidance. this is not the only album of paolo ferrera. and from the album chronology this album looks like, it was produced before mid 70s.

i also asked to my friend Mellow Records owner, Mauro Moroni one of the biggest collector of prog/psych, and the only one that i know who has the original album in his collection. here is his reply to me:

"Savaş, there is NO release date neither on the vynil nor on the cover.
After long researches we italian experts (!) have come to the conclusion that the release date was 1972.

But I know that Matthias Scheller, the BTF/Vinyl Magic boss), was trying to reissue the album on cd and was in contact maybe with Ferrara himself."

any information is always welcome

The6070Rock said...

Heya NAHA, nice post (to a hardrocker like me).
Thanks !!!

See you when vacation here.
All the best

ROCK ON

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately it was a poor guess and you haven't said why your arsenal of "expertise" led you to 72 (its actually labelled 71 here).

I'm no expert but clearly there are emulations of Floyd tracks from 1968 so if your premise is that Floyd stole those ideas then the album must be 1968 or earlier. Production wise it sounds 70's or later which means Paulo Ferrara must have done the stealing for those tracks.

Regarding the other tracks, I suppose its possible Floyd could have taken his music, but very unlikely. They've always been proud to announce their aids, collaborators and influences. Like Ron Geesin, Alan Parsons and Bob Ezrin. Ron Geesin responsible for the orchestra and choir in Atom Heart Mother (1970), Alan Parsons, engineering the sumptuous sound on Dark Side Of The Moon (1972/73) and Bob Ezrin who had the idea for the disco beat and kids in Another Brick In The Wall Pt 2 (1979).

This is actually a great listen though and I thank you heartily and honestly for it. To me its miles better than anything Floyd released after Animals.

Its also highly original, to me anyway because there are lots of tribute bands who cover their heroes note for note but I've never heard one do anything like this. It really is worth listening to and in parts its also really funny if you have a sense of humour about music. Thankyou again and more like this please.

nahavanda said...

@Eddie great to see you around! Here winter comes day by day, i wish i were there! i miss summer :o)

@anonymous when you submit an article to wikipedia, they require you to submit an external source. just like that i took the only info at net from http://www.italianprog.com/it/a_list_f.htm moreover i asked to 2 italian major label owners for the date. so this is not my guess. all along the years i did many mistakes on reviews dates and infos in this blog, and some came with a proof and i changed my mistake by sending my regards to the folks. moreover weekly there drops hundreds of albums to prognotfrog, forum, and friends. some of them even got no information on net, so this is not the first time i do that. it is not a challange nor a competiton.

i listened floyd obsesively for years, and i really love what they did. at 70s not the pink floyd but the floyd sounds were major/dominant..

3 years before the existence of camel's mirage..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt4K_145GqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwtAIKP58o4

if you still see 1971 at title, it is my fault, now i am just waiting heat to decrease on this post, so i can change the title (links to posts generally change when title change)

i am also researching and curious for an exact date, hope we can find proof of evidance, so the change of the date can be meaningful for all of us.

Anonymous said...

This is a fascinating album. Track 12, Salgemma, was re-edited by UK dance act Padded Cell and re-issued on 12" vinyl a couple of years ago.

As far as the year of release is concerned, I don't think it's fair for people to attack nahavanda for simply passing on the information he was given - too many sensitive Pink Floyd fans seeing it as a slight on their heroes, maybe? To which I say, don't take it so personally; just enjoy the music, which is very good after all.

My guess for year of release is around 1977. There's a delay effect on the track Modulo 35 which I thought might be a Roland RE-201 Space Ech (which would date the record no earlier than '73), but on closer listening sounds much cleaner, like an early digital delay. This would mean the record is more likely to be late 70s.

BronDune said...

Hi nahavanda - If one of your best friend is from Mellow Records, I guess he doesn't know you give all those album available to download...

So your explanation is not valid until you prove yourself this album comes from early 70's and or exactly from 1971 or 1972. Sir Moroni doesn't have himself the vinyle but a CD-R copy of a hypothetical vinyle ! Ask him the question.

You tell us BTF was trying to reissue the album. I have no answer about that from BTF since I have sent us an email some days ago. Could you give us the official answer from sir Scheller?

So I like a lot your blog since years. That's not this episode that will change that but stop telling anything you are not able to verify before publishing. You have a responsibility when you publish any information that could make an Internet buzz.

Cheers.

nahavanda said...

@BronDune look brother, in my life i never ever requested 1 single album from anyone to send to the blog. this album dropped to pnfforum.. and since i enjoy the album, i wanted to bring it to front at blog so that many friends can enjoy it. even if you got money at your pocket, most probably you can not find many of the albums that i presented at blog to buy in any form. everybody knows very well prognotfrog is a music sharing blog, and most also knows very well pnf is one of the most respected blog to the musicians. sharing an album which released a few hundred copies in time and also lost its economical value for both its label & the musician behind is not a thread for music world, rather it is something good for both listeners, musicians, like-minded labels. every 1 of 10 album thats reviewed at this blog met with its original musician, and we got very nice feedback from them (you may like to click "master said" button, still not ready anyway).

you can not find any buzz words in my reviews like "excellent!!!", "dont miss it!", "wonderful", "exceptional album!!" etc. i avoid such kind of words not to distort the psychology of the reader. however whenever i find something interesting, i talk to myself: man thats great album! etc. for this album; it was really great for me to listen. but i respect to anyone who labels this album "bad", "weak", etc. what makes me upset is, if there needs only one word to describe this album. this word should'nt be "fake", just because a few songs and the atmosphere sounds like floyd.

-"stop telling anything you are not able to verify before publishing."
i never said that. i tried to do my best before publishing. what do you want from me to do more??
we are not talking about a musician/album that you can find every corner.
read my copy/paste review and read my previous comments. the only information on net is here:
http://www.italianprog.com/it/a_list_f.htm
and this site says its 1972. however i was also curious for the album so i wanted to verify the date by asking 2 other sources. they said they are unsure because there is no date on sleeve or vinyl, also added that they come to conclusion that it should be 72. so i used that date. whats the big deal here? i dont need to prove anyone anything! because i dont claim anything!

this blog is -just like other writters of the blog- a weekend hobby for me. i got a family, i live in an appartment building, i eat, i take care of my friends, and i work on a job to survive. could you understand that? just an hobby!. noone pays me for that, noone force me. i do that because i love that. here is also not a research center, nor it is a database like wikipedia, rateyourmusic or progarchives, however like anyone else i try to be careful and serious as much as i can, and anyone can participate his/her knowledge. previously as i said, the only information at net was indicating that album was 1972. so i used it. and even tried to verify with my other friends.

problem here is not the date, i dont suprise if that is after mid 70s. but i feel some people would like to see that their team wins.

in university years i was participating with my friends, discussions about pink floyd. which of their album is the best, how creative umma gumma was, who beats whom bla bla blaaa.... it was so boring in time and it wasnt giving me pleasure. and such kind of discussions still dont give me any pleasure. and i feel that this discussion begin to turn a bit like that. i see problem here is not the date but more like stupid floyd discussion. who beats whom, how creative was floyd.......instead of enjoying such a nice album, some people wants to be judges.

BronDune said...

nahavanda - you're disturbing the sense of my post with your family and friends explanations. Be sure that I don't want to accuse you. I'm not an ennemi. As I told you I like a lot your blog. I just try to explain that the buzz (yeah yeah yeah !) comes from your blog. You seem to be sure that the album was issued early in 7O's because some "authorized" persons told you that. But how do you explain you never heard about Profondita before ? Since 1971 ! I am 45. And you ? Are you a baby born ? Thus yes for sure you have to prove what you're publishing because you are resposible of the information you publih even if you are just a relay and also because your blog has a terrific audience. Do you realize that without your blog, nobody would know Profondita or P aolo F errara (PF as Pink Floyd - what a coincidence isn't it). You said also Paolo Ferrara has issued other albums (or has participated). What album are you talking about ? Nobody can answer this question. You just repeat what you've seen on italianprog website. But this guy only got a CD-R copy of the "original" double LP album. Do you know that ?

If you don't want to talk about that anymore ok, it's my last post. I respect your decision. But if you let people the freedom to express themselves thanks to a comment box, I do prefer you let everybody free to explain his point of view frankly (as I do).

nahavanda said...

@BronDude i wrote family and friends for a purpose: "time". and i think it was clear enough.

please take the album: http://lix.in/-911935
the only info for this album is here:
http://forbiddeneye.com/labels/rockinghorse.html
not for prog/psych fans, but a jazz funk lover would rate this album good.
could you please help me to find some info?

as i know you are belgian, so maybe you have heard of them? and give me some informations? you are 45, and how many people who is 45 at belgium listened/remember them?
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/43/photonjp.jpg
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6739/photo2ul.jpg

dont take me wrong, with those examples, i dont want to test your knowledge, rather i want to remind you some facts that; sometimes you need (more) time to come to a conclusion or research more. if there is no enough information then you need to benefit from your friends who may have a knowledge about the album/musician. if there is already information, then you may choose to rely on to the information that already exists. in pnf we recieve tens of albums that have similar situation as profondita in a week. thats why i wanted to indicate time. but even if you have time sometimes it is nearly impossible to find informations.

read my previous comments, i never ever said that: "i am sure that date is 72". rather i indicate that we need to find a date thats meaningful for all of us.

and also read some comments, a friend dereg says he has vinyl numbered HS_3220 and profondita is HS_3218. so he says profondita should be after mid 70s. thats what i respect! because it comes to ears logical. yet another friend who seems to have knowledge about vintage keyboards/synths says; delay effect on 12th song is a technology for far future date, so he says this album should be after mid 70s. thats what i respect!. But if you say (P)aolo (F)errara/(P)ink (F)loyd and you try to find a weird connection. that is not something that i would respect. and yes paolo ferrara has other albums. his 1975 album just reissued in 2010. you can listen and buy from here:
http://www.believedigital.com/artists/106526-3349,paolo-ferrara.html
and he got other albums as well:
http://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=Paolo+Ferrara&thumbs=&currsel=&x=29&y=5

-"But this guy only got a CD-R copy of the "original" double LP album. Do you know that ?"
i downloaded album from pnfforum in mp3 form, that a canadian friend introduced us in forum. none of us at prognotfrog has the original vinyl. so i asked to my friend Mauro, who has the original vinyl. he replied me that there is no date on sleeve or lp. a person who has ten to thousands dont need lies to claim: i have vinyl. he would as well tell that he got cd-r. but you confuse him with the folks you see around at rym.

my last words for this discussion, i know that some people enjoy this album a lot, and that was my primary goal. i am happy for that. i hope in time we can find some proofs for an exact date.

Dereg said...

Well, mistery has been revealed. I've just thought to check the SIAE stamp on the label of my copy. SIAE is the Italian society for music licensing etc... like the US BMI\ASCAP.

According to http://www.italianprog.com/l_siae.htm, three kinds of stamps has been used in Italy in the seventies.

Profondita's SIAE stamp belongs to the third kind (15mm diameter with the little "1" in dark red colour, not easy to read due to black colour of the label).

According again to Italianprog website, the stamp was used from 1978 onwards.

Hope to have been useful.

Great records though!

BronDune said...

@ Dereg - Thanks for informations. 1978 seems to me a better issue date. Realistic I mean. Could you show us a scan of the cover art, inside layout and double vinyle discs ? Tx a lot if it is possible for you and tx to take on your time!

@ nahavanda - Thanks for the links to Paolo Ferrara works. It's really another kind of music than that one from Profondità. Perhaps this is not the same musician. Wow wow wow I know what you're about to reply :)) And I'm sorry if you don't see the disturbing resemblance to the name P aolo F errara and that music directly connected to that one of P ink F loyd ;) Maybe am I wrong, maybe not but it's not weird for that. Stange but certainly not weird. Still about Profondità, and that'll my last words about it, I still have no answer from BTF which is about to reissue album according to you...

About the question you ask to me, you can't compare some osbcure belgian works to Profondità which has a direct connection with Pink Floyd music. That's THE point.

Did you notice something ? On the link http://forbiddeneye.com/labels/rockinghorse.html : "Discography copyright © 2008-2010 by Robert Plante." Robert Plante ?? Do you know what does mean the word "plante" in french ? Do you know somebody whose name is Robert Plant ? ;)) Funny no ?

Once again, I want to thank you for the huge work you're doing with PNF. And yes, I rather like Profondità also. Oh and yes, I'm also listening to a lot of Jazz-funk, Jazz-rock & Jazz-Fusion ;)

BronDune said...

@ ProgNotFroggers - Matthias Scheller from BTC has aswered me that he's managing to deal a licence to reissue Profondità. He will investigate further on the effective date of release. So I keep 1978 for 1st issue date (according to the stamp which Dereg told us) and I hope (I asked to sir Scheller) to have an explanation with the future BTC reissue on the point 'why did Ferrara make such an album". I suppose he was a fan of Pink Floyd. Anyway this is an astounding story.

Thank you nahavanda for your blog \o/

Anonymous said...

Nice hoax.

Pipi2 said...

Thanks for the efforts to share that "album" with us. A lot of similarities with the Floyd music, and most likely a dedication to Pink Floyd. Some sounds are rather pleasant to my hears, and I confess that I do appreciate the following attempts to reproduce some original songs with a fresh sense of artistic design. There is also some sorts of mystery behind the themes of the album / album cover.

Thanks ;)

Anonymous said...

Please check on the imdb website, and more precisely the movie entitled "Il Corsaro Nero", which was released in 1971:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066950/

The song for which Paolo Ferrera is creadited is called: "Orza qui, poggia li"

Here is what you can find on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JvFcsyMi2M&playnext=1&list=PLB6C78D91B9803CB4&index=11

So is this Paolo Ferrera real?

Emilianomex said...

Hello nahavanda ...
just wanna say thank you, this is a great album putting aside the controversy, this group sound really sharp and focus. I enjoy it a lot.
A big thank you again from Mexico

Pipi2 said...

Here is the connection with the Floyd music:

Track 1 - One of These Days
Track 2 - A Saucerful of Secrets
Track 3 - Time
Piste 4 - Breathe (?, still not sure)
Piste 6 - Shine on (intro)
Piste 10 - Echoes
Piste 11 - Shine on
Piste 13 - On the Run
Piste 14 - Welcome to the Machine

I am pretty sure that there are other Floyd songs in the Profondita album...

Enjoy,

Pipi2 aka Max

Anonymous said...

The link does not work for this cat. Perhaps another link may be brought to light?

isabelbc said...

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2AEND5ON

genre slur said...

Oh isabelbc, I shall be as grateful as you wish. Thank you. I will now join the 'ranks' of this awesome vein of creative aural cats. Yum!

Anonymous said...

Thanks isabelbc
..

Anonymous said...

Hallo, an interesting italian page dedicated to "the Case of Profondità" ;-)

http://classikrock.blogspot.com/2011/09/paolo-ferrara-profondita-1972.html

P.s. surely 1978 or over

Mario

The House of Wrong said...

Hi, I have been looking for this increibly rare LP for about 11 yers now and my search has taken me to this very seriously informative site but there is no working link?!!? Is anybody possibly able to upload a fresh link for this deeply interesting record please? Yours appreciately, DS

isabelbc said...

new link http://www.mediafire.com/?zt35qfkra2dyucw

Anonymous said...

hello Isabel, new link is dead too.
Can you please repost it?
Many many thanks, Lante

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